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	<title>Comments for GeoComrade</title>
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	<link>http://www.geocomrade.com</link>
	<description>maps, geo, web 4.0, motherland</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 06 Jan 2011 20:49:41 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Wikimapia: Profitable and Closing on 1M Unique Visitors, but no Exit in Sight by rye</title>
		<link>http://www.geocomrade.com/2010/06/25/wikimapia-profitable-and-closing-on-1m-unique-visitors-but-no-exit-in-sight/comment-page-1/#comment-511</link>
		<dc:creator>rye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Jan 2011 20:49:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.andreit.com/?p=502#comment-511</guid>
		<description>I know this is an old entry, just wanted to make an observation.  Regarding this statement: &#039;Wikimapia allows users to annotate features on the map, add points of interest and more. When compared to OpenStreetMap, the main difference is that Wikimapia users are not limited in what they can add to the map. In addition, all user-contributed features are presented as clickable overlays and not &#8220;baked&#8221; into the actual map tiles.&#039; 
 
What catches my eye is the implication that in OSM features are &quot;baked&quot; into the map.  More than anything OSM is a database.  It is not so much a map drawing client.  The client that you are referring to is probably the one on the view tab on the OSM page.  That particular client&#039;s main purpose is merely to visually support contributors in making updates to the database. 
 
In the database, nothing is baked in. 
 
That said, the OSM foundation doesn&#039;t own the data.  The contributor owns their contributions agreeing to license them under CC by-SA.  Couple that with the fact that the specific OSM client you are referring to is open source, anyone is free to clone and extend it to their purposes (layers or what have you).  If desired, their improvements to the client can be submitted to OSM for inclusion in the common if they are beneficial to map making.  Or, an altogether new client can be created using the OSM database. 
 
Nothing is baked-in in OSM.  Contributors are free to add whatever (non-malicious content) they want, if there is no tag for a novel feature, then from what I&#039;ve read OSM is open to additions.   
 
OSM offers more freedom on all fronts. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know this is an old entry, just wanted to make an observation.  Regarding this statement: &#039;Wikimapia allows users to annotate features on the map, add points of interest and more. When compared to OpenStreetMap, the main difference is that Wikimapia users are not limited in what they can add to the map. In addition, all user-contributed features are presented as clickable overlays and not &ldquo;baked&rdquo; into the actual map tiles.&#039; </p>
<p>What catches my eye is the implication that in OSM features are &quot;baked&quot; into the map.  More than anything OSM is a database.  It is not so much a map drawing client.  The client that you are referring to is probably the one on the view tab on the OSM page.  That particular client&#039;s main purpose is merely to visually support contributors in making updates to the database. </p>
<p>In the database, nothing is baked in. </p>
<p>That said, the OSM foundation doesn&#039;t own the data.  The contributor owns their contributions agreeing to license them under CC by-SA.  Couple that with the fact that the specific OSM client you are referring to is open source, anyone is free to clone and extend it to their purposes (layers or what have you).  If desired, their improvements to the client can be submitted to OSM for inclusion in the common if they are beneficial to map making.  Or, an altogether new client can be created using the OSM database. </p>
<p>Nothing is baked-in in OSM.  Contributors are free to add whatever (non-malicious content) they want, if there is no tag for a novel feature, then from what I&#039;ve read OSM is open to additions.   </p>
<p>OSM offers more freedom on all fronts.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Arcgis.com bigger than Flickr? by CyanBlue</title>
		<link>http://www.geocomrade.com/2010/12/22/arcgis-com-bigger-than-flickr/comment-page-1/#comment-477</link>
		<dc:creator>CyanBlue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Dec 2010 16:38:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geocomrade.com/?p=1404#comment-477</guid>
		<description>&quot;I make the point in my crude analysis that I take one pan or a zoom to equal one map request&quot; 
 
It&#039;s like you have 400 books in one book just because you have 400 pages in it...   
 
I think you have to keep that definition inside the company... When you are talking to general public or even not-so-educated GIS users, 1 map means 1 map...  That&#039;s just a marketing mumbo jumbo you are playing onto them...  That&#039;s my 2 cents... 
 
CyanBlue </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;I make the point in my crude analysis that I take one pan or a zoom to equal one map request&quot; </p>
<p>It&#039;s like you have 400 books in one book just because you have 400 pages in it&#8230;   </p>
<p>I think you have to keep that definition inside the company&#8230; When you are talking to general public or even not-so-educated GIS users, 1 map means 1 map&#8230;  That&#039;s just a marketing mumbo jumbo you are playing onto them&#8230;  That&#039;s my 2 cents&#8230; </p>
<p>CyanBlue</p>
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		<title>Comment on Arcgis.com bigger than Flickr? by andreitr</title>
		<link>http://www.geocomrade.com/2010/12/22/arcgis-com-bigger-than-flickr/comment-page-1/#comment-476</link>
		<dc:creator>andreitr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Dec 2010 16:25:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geocomrade.com/?p=1404#comment-476</guid>
		<description>Hi Ed,  
 
Tim&#039;s tweet specifically referred to the number of &quot;user-generated maps on the site&quot;, this is why I chose to use Unique Visitors as the main metric. I agree that Compete does not have the most accurate data. That being said, their data is good enough for the purpose of this post which is to show the general difference in traffic magnitude. 
 
You have a good point, ESRI&#039;s definition of the map might be very different from my own. In my opinion, a user-generated map is simply a bounding box explicitly created by a user with or without associated geometries...  
 
Cheers,  
Andrei </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Ed,  </p>
<p>Tim&#039;s tweet specifically referred to the number of &quot;user-generated maps on the site&quot;, this is why I chose to use Unique Visitors as the main metric. I agree that Compete does not have the most accurate data. That being said, their data is good enough for the purpose of this post which is to show the general difference in traffic magnitude. </p>
<p>You have a good point, ESRI&#039;s definition of the map might be very different from my own. In my opinion, a user-generated map is simply a bounding box explicitly created by a user with or without associated geometries&#8230;  </p>
<p>Cheers,<br />
Andrei</p>
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		<title>Comment on Arcgis.com bigger than Flickr? by Ed Boiling</title>
		<link>http://www.geocomrade.com/2010/12/22/arcgis-com-bigger-than-flickr/comment-page-1/#comment-474</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Boiling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Dec 2010 09:59:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geocomrade.com/?p=1404#comment-474</guid>
		<description>Hi Bill, 
 
I think you make a good point: it is the definition of &quot;a map&quot; that is key to understanding the figure of 400 million. I don&#039;t know what definition has been used, but I am pretty sure it is not likely to be just tile requests. 
 
So, what is a map? I make the point in my crude analysis that I take one pan or a zoom to equal one map request (I have no idea if this is what ESRI are quoting of course). In ArcGIS desktop, ArcGIS Explorer or any of the ESRI web API based clients, this would perhaps equate to between 1 and about 10 separate tile requests (for new areas of base map not previously cached in the client) plus perhaps one or two dynamic map image requests (for any &quot;business&quot; data overlays). 
 
My back-of-the-envelope calculations were just to highlight that the average GIS user map usage I use when sizing mapping systems, 6 pans and zooms per minute on average, could account for that number of maps (and more) requested in a month with the number of unique visitors quoted by Compete.com. So yes, I stick to my original statement, it doesn&#039;t seem unreasonable to me, based on those assumptions. Of course I have no idea how accurate my assumptions are in this case! 
 
My bone of contention with Andrei&#039;s analysis is merely that Unique Visitors is the wrong metric to use when challenging the quoted figure of 400 million maps. Compete.com defines it as follows:  
 
&quot;The Unique Visitors metric only counts a person once no matter how many times they visit a site in a given month&quot;.  
 
My point is we don&#039;t know how many times those 33,000 visited in a month. I am just theorising that given the userbase of ArcGIS.com it is not unreasonable to think that some or many of those visitors are working in the 6 maps a minute, all working day, 20 or so days a month pattern I described. If so, they could request a very large number of maps indeed. 
 
I have no better idea than anyone else what the 400 million figure includes but I don&#039;t think it can be entirely made up of tile requests. As far as I am aware, not all maps published through ArcGIS.com are tile caches, some are dynamic map services where you request a new bespoke image each time. It gets more complicated when you look at ArcGIS Server map services registered with ArcGIS.com but hosted by other organisations elsewhere; I have no idea if requests to these services via ArcGIS.com are being included or not either.  
 
Ed </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Bill, </p>
<p>I think you make a good point: it is the definition of &quot;a map&quot; that is key to understanding the figure of 400 million. I don&#039;t know what definition has been used, but I am pretty sure it is not likely to be just tile requests. </p>
<p>So, what is a map? I make the point in my crude analysis that I take one pan or a zoom to equal one map request (I have no idea if this is what ESRI are quoting of course). In ArcGIS desktop, ArcGIS Explorer or any of the ESRI web API based clients, this would perhaps equate to between 1 and about 10 separate tile requests (for new areas of base map not previously cached in the client) plus perhaps one or two dynamic map image requests (for any &quot;business&quot; data overlays). </p>
<p>My back-of-the-envelope calculations were just to highlight that the average GIS user map usage I use when sizing mapping systems, 6 pans and zooms per minute on average, could account for that number of maps (and more) requested in a month with the number of unique visitors quoted by Compete.com. So yes, I stick to my original statement, it doesn&#039;t seem unreasonable to me, based on those assumptions. Of course I have no idea how accurate my assumptions are in this case! </p>
<p>My bone of contention with Andrei&#039;s analysis is merely that Unique Visitors is the wrong metric to use when challenging the quoted figure of 400 million maps. Compete.com defines it as follows:  </p>
<p>&quot;The Unique Visitors metric only counts a person once no matter how many times they visit a site in a given month&quot;.  </p>
<p>My point is we don&#039;t know how many times those 33,000 visited in a month. I am just theorising that given the userbase of ArcGIS.com it is not unreasonable to think that some or many of those visitors are working in the 6 maps a minute, all working day, 20 or so days a month pattern I described. If so, they could request a very large number of maps indeed. </p>
<p>I have no better idea than anyone else what the 400 million figure includes but I don&#039;t think it can be entirely made up of tile requests. As far as I am aware, not all maps published through ArcGIS.com are tile caches, some are dynamic map services where you request a new bespoke image each time. It gets more complicated when you look at ArcGIS Server map services registered with ArcGIS.com but hosted by other organisations elsewhere; I have no idea if requests to these services via ArcGIS.com are being included or not either.  </p>
<p>Ed</p>
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		<title>Comment on Arcgis.com bigger than Flickr? by Bill</title>
		<link>http://www.geocomrade.com/2010/12/22/arcgis-com-bigger-than-flickr/comment-page-1/#comment-470</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Dec 2010 19:02:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geocomrade.com/?p=1404#comment-470</guid>
		<description>Ed, Are you saying that 400,000,000 maps seems reasonable? ESRI clearly has no idea what a map is if that is the case. A cached tile is not a user generated map. Counting tile views as a map is the equivalent (keeping the Flickr theme going here) of counting user generated pixels on Flickr, and counting each pixel view as a user generated image.  
 
Learon, ESRI has &#039;confirmed&#039; that this was not a misquote. &lt;a href=&quot;http://apb.directionsmag.com/archives/9155-Esri-Confirms-400-million-user-gen-maps-on-ArcGIS.com-in-October.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://apb.directionsmag.com/archives/9155-Esri-C...&lt;/a&gt; 
 
Andrei, Awesome Blog post, thanks. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ed, Are you saying that 400,000,000 maps seems reasonable? ESRI clearly has no idea what a map is if that is the case. A cached tile is not a user generated map. Counting tile views as a map is the equivalent (keeping the Flickr theme going here) of counting user generated pixels on Flickr, and counting each pixel view as a user generated image.  </p>
<p>Learon, ESRI has &#039;confirmed&#039; that this was not a misquote. <a href="http://apb.directionsmag.com/archives/9155-Esri-Confirms-400-million-user-gen-maps-on-ArcGIS.com-in-October.html" rel="nofollow">http://apb.directionsmag.com/archives/9155-Esri-C&#8230;</a> </p>
<p>Andrei, Awesome Blog post, thanks.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Arcgis.com bigger than Flickr? by Learon Dalby</title>
		<link>http://www.geocomrade.com/2010/12/22/arcgis-com-bigger-than-flickr/comment-page-1/#comment-469</link>
		<dc:creator>Learon Dalby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Dec 2010 18:35:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geocomrade.com/?p=1404#comment-469</guid>
		<description>I like your line of thinking. I&#039;m not going to say &quot;ArcGIS.com didn&#039;t have 400,000,000  user-generated maps&quot;, but it sure would be nice to see the raw data that supports the very hard to believe claim. There is another option. May be it was simply a mistake or misquote. In the times of instant news maybe a slip of the finger on the mobile device resulted in a mistaken report. I once accidently reported a file was 1TB when it was only 1GB. Silly mistake and fortunately no one really cared.  Unfortunately it is nearly 24 hours later I have not seen any follow-up to correct the error.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like your line of thinking. I&#039;m not going to say &quot;ArcGIS.com didn&#039;t have 400,000,000  user-generated maps&quot;, but it sure would be nice to see the raw data that supports the very hard to believe claim. There is another option. May be it was simply a mistake or misquote. In the times of instant news maybe a slip of the finger on the mobile device resulted in a mistaken report. I once accidently reported a file was 1TB when it was only 1GB. Silly mistake and fortunately no one really cared.  Unfortunately it is nearly 24 hours later I have not seen any follow-up to correct the error.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Arcgis.com bigger than Flickr? by Ed Boiling</title>
		<link>http://www.geocomrade.com/2010/12/22/arcgis-com-bigger-than-flickr/comment-page-1/#comment-466</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Boiling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Dec 2010 10:36:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geocomrade.com/?p=1404#comment-466</guid>
		<description>But unique visitors are a red herring surely? ArcGIS.com is used by GIS professionals (amongst others), who will sit at their ArcGIS workstations looking at maps all day - with an ArcGIS.com basemap or overlay. So unique visits doesn&#039;t give you any insight into how many visits each unique visitor makes, or how long each visit is, or how many maps each user made. 
 
If one unique visitor actually visits every working day for 20 or so days a month, then 12,000 maps over 20-odd days is about 500-600 a day, 80 or so an hour in a 7 hour working day, or less than two a minute, per unique visitor. 
 
My experience tells me that GIS users tend to average about 6 pans and zooms (=maps) per minute when working so this doesn&#039;t sound unreasonable to me. 
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But unique visitors are a red herring surely? ArcGIS.com is used by GIS professionals (amongst others), who will sit at their ArcGIS workstations looking at maps all day &#8211; with an ArcGIS.com basemap or overlay. So unique visits doesn&#039;t give you any insight into how many visits each unique visitor makes, or how long each visit is, or how many maps each user made. </p>
<p>If one unique visitor actually visits every working day for 20 or so days a month, then 12,000 maps over 20-odd days is about 500-600 a day, 80 or so an hour in a 7 hour working day, or less than two a minute, per unique visitor. </p>
<p>My experience tells me that GIS users tend to average about 6 pans and zooms (=maps) per minute when working so this doesn&#039;t sound unreasonable to me.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Arcgis.com bigger than Flickr? by Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.geocomrade.com/2010/12/22/arcgis-com-bigger-than-flickr/comment-page-1/#comment-465</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Dec 2010 07:25:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geocomrade.com/?p=1404#comment-465</guid>
		<description>Bizarre... The only thing I can think of is that ESRI is somehow counting every image generated for their web maps... As in every cached image, as a &quot;user created map&quot;.  I find even that hard to believe, but it&#039;s the only thing that remotely makes sense! </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bizarre&#8230; The only thing I can think of is that ESRI is somehow counting every image generated for their web maps&#8230; As in every cached image, as a &#8220;user created map&#8221;.  I find even that hard to believe, but it&#8217;s the only thing that remotely makes sense!</p>
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		<title>Comment on 2GIS: Unlocking the Potential of Russia&#8217;s Local Market by Mari</title>
		<link>http://www.geocomrade.com/2010/06/03/2gis-unlocking-the-potential-of-russias-local-market/comment-page-1/#comment-406</link>
		<dc:creator>Mari</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 2010 15:42:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.andreit.com/?p=567#comment-406</guid>
		<description>Legko razobrat&#039;sa v bol&#039;shom raznoobrazii &lt;a href=&quot;http://mosmap.ru&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;gis&lt;/a&gt;, esli znat&#039; tseli primeneniya </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Legko razobrat&#8217;sa v bol&#8217;shom raznoobrazii <a href="http://mosmap.ru" rel="nofollow">gis</a>, esli znat&#8217; tseli primeneniya</p>
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		<title>Comment on Kerch Has Never Looked So Good by Toivo</title>
		<link>http://www.geocomrade.com/2010/10/27/kerch-has-never-looked-so-good/comment-page-1/#comment-367</link>
		<dc:creator>Toivo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Nov 2010 17:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geocomrade.com/?p=1193#comment-367</guid>
		<description>OOO it is true!!! </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OOO it is true!!!</p>
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